Integral World: Exploring Theories of Everything
An independent forum for a critical discussion of the integral philosophy of Ken Wilber
Ken Wilber: Thought as Passion, SUNY 2003Frank Visser, graduated as a psychologist of culture and religion, founded IntegralWorld in 1997. He worked as production manager for various publishing houses and as service manager for various internet companies and lives in Amsterdam. Books: Ken Wilber: Thought as Passion (SUNY, 2003), and The Corona Conspiracy: Combatting Disinformation about the Coronavirus (Kindle, 2020).


Jorn Luka Goes ‘Seriously In‑Depth’ with David Icke

The Corona Conspiracy, Part 37

Frank Visser

It is a pathetically self-complimentary stance, that displays both their amateurism and their narcissism.

Dutch podcast host Jorn Luka went all the way to the Isle of Wight to do a 4-hour live-interview with David Icke, who for the past 30 years has tried to "awaken us".[1] The two gentlemen start off very complimentary and both feel humbled by the other's presence. And they consider this talk to be of more than usual significance. It was a meeting that was meant to happen. They envision a parting of ways between those whose consciousness is still imprisoned in five senses, and those who have awakened to something greater, expanded their consciousness to infinity. These visionaries are excluded from society at the moment, but that's fine with them, for society sucks. The five senses, Icke proclaims, cannot connect the dots. Only with an expanded consciousness is it possible to do so, and to see what is happening in the world today.

The video was uploaded to YouTube but got quickly removed, so Luka posted it on his own website Icke's website is promoting it now profusely.

High praise for Jorn Luka's interview on David Icke's website.
Jorn Luka's Trueman Show team flew from the Netherlands to the Isle of Wight to go seriously in-depth with David … this is what happened … and please share with everyone you can (

Methinks the intelligent human mind itself is perfectly capable of connecting the dots of reality. But that is asking for a rationality that is hard to come by in these circles.

The Trueman Show #54 David Icke
Icke: "My focus is always on facts and evidence. My bottom line is: is it true?"*

* Says the man who thinks that "tall, blood-drinking, shape-shifting reptilian humanoids from the Alpha Draconis star system, now hiding in underground bases, are the force behind a worldwide conspiracy against humanity."

Those Who Question...

The Covid era has shown an incredible divide between those who "nod their heads" and those "who question", says Icke. Many have accepted the current dominant narrative about the pandemic, but only a few critical minds have asked "give me the freakin' evidence!" This self-image of conspiracists is more than common. They see themselves as "doing the research", which amounts to watching countless hours of YouTube (or Bitchute or Odysee or....) videos, whereas those who really do research into the labs, are seen as duped by Big Pharma. It is a pathetically self-complimentary stance, that displays both their amateurism and their narcissism.

Icke recounts that up until 1990 he still was leading a normal life—as soccer player, television journalist, spokesman for the Green Party—but at a certain moment "it wasn't normal anymore". He felt a "tangible presence", not from this world, helping him through his journey. He felt "enveloped by an electromagnetic field", who pushed him to pick up a biography about a certain psychic, Betty Shine, whom he contacted afterwards to make sense of his situation. She told him Socrates was among those present (Icke only knew Socrates as a Brazilian soccer player). He was told he would go out into the world and change it, or give a message that could change the world.

Jorn Luka
Jorn Luka

He feels that looking back on those 32 years, everything that was told to happen came true. At the very least we can say David Icke lived according to his calling. Since then his life has been one of "daily synchronicities", of "meeting people, coming across books, document, whistleblowers".

David Icke's message is essentially a spiritual one, of awakening those who are asleep and of opposing the (lower) powers that reign the world. We are living in an illusion, where everything that seems solid is in fact empty space, according to quantum physics. "All bets are off." Compared to this the "Covid is a hoax" illusion is tiny.

Well, even if that is true, about solid objects being mostly empty space, so what? Does that point to a deeper reality we should be aware of? Or is this purely trivial and mystifying? Icke tells about the massive amounts of ridicule he got for telling back then that the world was ruled by Reptilians, but he feels vindicated about everything. Except that, the whole story of Reptilians was taken wholesale from esotoric lore, a few science fiction novels and fantasy literature... And when Icke claims that "tall, blood-drinking, shape-shifting reptilian humanoids from the Alpha Draconis star system, now hiding in underground bases, are the force behind a worldwide conspiracy against humanity", is this in fact a veiled reference to his anti-Semitism?

So what we have here is, a critical view of current trends in society, which one might or might not agree with, a form of modern-day spirituality some find inspiring, spiced up with over-the-top ludicrous metaphysics. Icke takes the wise advice not to be bothered by ridicule to absurd limits.

The Covid Narrative

Turning to the topic of vaccines, Icke gives a perfect example of not understanding the basics. Icke is a proud anti-vaxxer. He will not mince words by saying "I am not antivax, but...", as many like RFK Jr. do. His reasoning goes like this:

The Covid narrative is so ludicrous, it is so insane, what it is saying is that you must believe that 2+2=-5. You must believe in a fake vaccine that we admit can't stop transmission, and we admit can't stop you from getting it... But if you don't get it [the vaccine] you are a danger to everyone else. But I am a danger to everyone else because I am not getting something that you say won't protect people from getting it. Now that's 2+2=5. But people accept it. What I am going to say is: 2+2=4. [41:52]

The bare truth is that the number of deaths among the unvaccinated massively outnumbers that of the vaccinated, of every type of vaccine available:

United States : Covid-19 weekly death rate by vaccination status. All ages.

But because the situation is a little bit more complicated and confusing, Icke and his ilk see chance of turning this truth upside-down. Vaccines don't protect 100% against infection and they don't prevent one 100% from spreading the virus, but they do so in a relative sense. Is that so hard to understand?

It is often said that the percentage of vaccinated patients on the IC equals that of the unvaccinated, so the unvaccinated are not to blame for the pandemic. But here's the trick: in the population the number of vaccinated by far outweighs that of the unvaccinated, so percentage-wise, the number of IC-admissions of the unvaccinated is much, much higher. Again, a simple fact is misconstrued by antivaxxers to fit their own preconceived agenda's. Simply said: if from a population of 100 only 10 are unvaccinated, and 90 are vaccinated, and from both groups 5 people end up on the IC, that means vaccinated people have a much lower chance of getting seriously ill. Simple arithmetic, but for self-styled researchers often too complicated.

But Icke is adamant: all that the "awakened" in the Covid era are saying is: two plus two equals four... Otherwise they would be as moronic as the masses. He does not want to give in to the insanity of society.

Please visit this online cemetery of the antivaxxers, who loudly advocated not taking the jab, until they themselves succumbed to Covid:

Bill & Trina Burger, 61, 51, Cincinatti, OH, Welder (Bill), anti-vaxxers, both dead from COVID.
Bill & Trina Burger, 61, 51, outspoken anti-vaxxers, both dead from COVID.

All About Perceptions

Icke makes an important point about how we tend to perceive the pandemic and change our behavior accordingly—or not at all.

If you have the perception that there's a deadly virus, and you need the fake vaccine to save your from it, you will lock down, you will social distance, you wear a face nappy and you will have the jab. If your perception is that this is a load of bullocks, you will not have any of it. So perception is everything and the idea is to control your perception so that they will dictate your behavior. [44:25]

As I have argued many times, a virus denialist can deny many aspects of this virus. I counted all 15 of them (see Appendix 1). And I fully agree here. If there is a deadly virus we will take appropriate measures, even if against high costs. If the virus is perceived as less deadly, the measures need not be that drastic anymore, and this is in fact the most hotly debated issue at the moment. But if there is no virus at all, as virus denialists tend to claim, none of the measures will make any sense to you.

So everything boils down to: who has truth on his side? Who does justice to the facts? Are there any objective facts in this pandemic? Or do both groups have their own "alternative facts"? It is, of course, one thing to promote a critical attitude towards all scientific knowledge, it is something else to buy wholesale into the conspiracy narrative of a plandemic. Even David Icke presents his own "factoids".

Some virus denialists try to play it smart by arguing that science is not about consensus, and conforming to the majority of opinions has never been a good strategy to make progress in science. Weren't all geniuses first seen as outsiders, often ridiculed or ignored and only much later recognized for their contributions? But this is the famous Galileo Gambit, "a logical fallacy that asserts that if your ideas provoke the establishment to vilify or threaten you, you must be right—'everyone says I am wrong, therefore I am right.'"

It is not enough to wear the mantle of Galileo: that you be persecuted by an unkind establishment. You must also be right. —Robert L. Park

So when it comes to who is right or wrong in this infodemic (see Part 14), the first wise step is to really study the scientific consensus. And this consensus is that, yes, we really have a dangerous virus at hand, and we really need to take drastic measures to survive it. And yes, a lot is still uncertain and not all suggested measures are equally effective, but taken as a whole they might be our only chance to make it. And yes, there are dissenting voices in science (e.g. the Great Barrington Declaration, arguing for herd immunity, vs. the John Snow Memorandum, arguing for the opposite), but both these views acknowledge the existence of viruses.

So if you want to argue that viruses don't exist, good luck with that. But don't start by thinking you are a genius. Above all, don't fall for the paranoia of David Icke.

The hidden Cult government

I have covered only the first hour of this almost 4-hour video, so I can't go through all of it. But Icke next discloses his view of the (mostly hidden) government of the world. It consists of layers and layers of hidden powers, who control everything behind the scene. There is paranoia around every corner now. The global response to the pandemic was "coordinated", not because finally the world could get its act together when it mattered, but because there is a sinister plan behind all this:

David Icke's View of the Powers that Govern the World
"The Spider"
Unknown and Unnamed Secret Societies
Known Secret Societies (Freemasons, Knights Templar, Opus Dei etc.)
"The Cusp" (projecting the ideas of the Spider into the world, like the Bilderberg Group, the Club of Rome, the United Nations, the WHO, Big Tech, many think tanks and non-governmental organizations, etc.)

So in Icke's mind, YouTube wasn't censoring corona disinformation to protect the population but to protect the Big Pharma narrative from being exposed. The Club of Rome was not created out of concern for the wellfare of the planet, but as an excuse to create global control. Big Pharma asked the authorities to approve of their vaccines, knowing fully well both belong to the Cult And so on, and so on.

There may be every reason to be suspicious about global tech and pharma firms that make millions during this pandemic, but it is something else to suspect a devious plan behind it all. We don't need to see these commercial companies as charity to accept that they have provide a huge service to a world in distress.

Stepping back from this Ickian narrative, why would any Hidden Government want global control at all? Or depopulation? What's the point of it? And why has this "Cult" actually let Icke broadcast his insubordinate message for over thirty years by now?

"There is no bloody virus!"

In Part 27 we covered David Icke's view of a possible lab leak (a topic we dealt with in more general terms in the last chapter, Part 36). In his opinion: "There is no bloody virus!" So he considers the hypothesis of a Wuhan Lab leak as just another Psy-Op game of the Cult. Since the Cult is "deeply insecure", in his opinion, he thinks it is highly unlikely that they would release a virus from a lab, over which they would have no control. "It is absolutely unthinkable that they would do that. It would drive them insane." But the idea of a lab leak (as alternative to a natural origin of the virus) only reinforces the notion that there is a virus to begin with.

So the Cult (i.e. the WHO) turned to something they could control: the creation of a PCR test that would detect the (imaginary) virus. What is more, they have given us the illusion of a virus, so they could create the real bio-weapon, which is the... vaccine.

So they had no virus, but they had to sell the belief system of the virus to the public. That is not too difficult because you have the worldwide media which by this time you own. So the key to this has been the test, the PCR test. [200:00]
David Icke
"Not this or that fake, it is all fake."

He recalls that Kary Mullis, the inventor of the PCR test, said you can't tell with this test if someone is infected. And that is precisely how it is used. Again, there is some truth to this, but we have discussed this in other chapters. The fact that Mullis died just a few months before the Covid pandemic started (on August 7 2019) was, in Icke's opinion, very "fortunate" for the Cult. And right at the start of the pandemic, there comes the German virologist Christian Drosten, who happens to have a protocol for testing SARS-CoV-2! Without any peer review from his colleagues, Icke stresses (echoing the "PCR-Gate" saga we told in Part 20, Part 24 and Part 33). And Drosten did not even have the virus; he was doing it all from a computer program!

He repeats the familiar conspiracy notions that the number of Covid deaths has been manipulated by counting everybody dying "with" a positive test as a Covid death, or even relabelling flu cases as Covid cases (for, strangely, the regular flu seem to have disappeared during the pandemic—mostly due to our lockdown measures I would presume). But Icke really gets heated up: "Where is the flu virus? Where is it? It has not disappeared, it's being called Covid-19." But wait a minute David, does the flu virus really exist after all? Slip of the tongue?

Variants like Omicron? Icke wants to have none of it (and repeats Andrew Kaufman's—"a doctor who has researched the non-existence of the virus"—opinion that variants are just failed replications of the original index genome (which wasn't based on a real virus anyway, see Part 31). He scoffs at the alarmism around variants which only serve to provide reasons to vaccinate more people (and the same people more often). I can understand that this raises eyebrows in large parts of the population.

Those who refuse the "jab", who think for themselves, are a problem for the Cult. Hence they are demonized and we have these mandatory vaccination programmes all around the world, Icke continues. All the independent minds are excluded from the institutions now. Again, false heroism here, if you ask me. Unvaccinated employees are a danger to the customers. But Icke sees this as the only way out of the "pandemic": simply refuse to cooperate with the authorities.

The net effect of David Icke's pandemic-related efforts has been to turn people away from getting proper prevention and treatment against the virus, based on a misguided message of "freedom" and "spirituality". Freedom always goes hand in hand with responsibility, and spirituality, if anything, strives to prevent and remove suffering from the world. Vaccination is how the pandemic ends.

Even Trump got boosted

Trump gets booed by the audience. Trump: "No, no, no, no, no!"

In a recent interview with former FoxNews host Bill O'Reilly Donald Trump was asked if he got the booster shot. He paused and then simply said: Yes (as did O'Reilly). Part of the audience, mostly his own fan base, booed him for this. Trump replied with: "No, no, no, no, no!" He quickly added that he was against vaccine mandates, but argued that he had saved "millions of lives" by being instrumental in the fast production of the vaccines and people should take the vaccine.

Now this is an interesting turn of events, since the United States is almost a natural experiment between (Democrat) states that follow most of the lockdown measures and those (Republican) who don't. With the predictable results.[2] And with Trump still having a large hold on the Republican voters, he could convince at least some of them to take the booster shot, or even get vaccinated in the first place.

But there's more. Wasn't Trump the Saviour of QAnon, the hard core extreme right conspiracy movement (see Part 18), in charge of defeating the Deep State? QAnonists are in for some cognitive dissonance now. I have heard some complain that Trump has become old and is not tech-savvy enough to follow the vaccine topic. And remember David Icke once called all of QAnon a Psy-Op and a Scam (see Part 21)? Yet, both Icke and QAnon share the same broad view of a world governed by (mostly Jewish) wealthy and powerful families and banks. Transatlantic conspiracy wars?

Ironically, David Icke himself is also accused of being "controlled opposition". But this comes from an anonymous British artist promoting anti-Semitism plain and simple: "It's not the 'Illuminati'—It's International Jewry."

Icke uses the Reptilian rhetoric as a deflection and distraction. Politicians and Royal Family members being shape shifting reptiles etc… I don't believe this at all. Sure, there are going to be some extraterrestrial intelligences having a big influence this planet, probably mainly offworld somewhere, but this shape shifting rhetoric is nonsense in my eyes, zero proof for it. It was designed to make Truthers look like they were nuts and without credibility... [3]

Oh, my, even virus denialist Andrew Kaufman is controlled opposition in these circles. And a Jew... (The author favorably mentions Tom Cowan, Stefan Lanka and Samantha Bailey though).[4] And deeper in the rabbit hole we go!


[1] Jorn Luka, "The Trueman Show #54 David Icke,, December 16, 2021.

[2] Daniel Wood, "Pro-Trump counties now have far higher COVID death rates. Misinformation is to blame",, December 5, 2021.

[3] Anonymous, "David Icke—Controlled Opposition—Shill",, May 27, 2018.

[4] Anonymous, "The Germ Theory Deception—Viruses, 5G , Vaccines, 'coronavirus', PCR test" ,, March 20, 2020 (with many updates).

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