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Frank Visser, graduated as a psychologist of culture and religion, founded IntegralWorld in 1997. He worked as production manager for various publishing houses and as service manager for various internet companies and lives in Amsterdam. Books: Ken Wilber: Thought as Passion (SUNY, 2003), and The Corona Conspiracy: Combatting Disinformation about the Coronavirus (Kindle, 2020).

Thought as Passion Foreword

Integral World Podcast #7

Frank Visser / NotebookLM

This is an informal, AI-generated conversation by Google's NotebookLM, based on the Foreword to "Ken Wilber: Thought as Passion" written by Ken Wilber in 2002.[1]

All right. So, get ready for some uh serious mind expansion today.

Oh, yeah.

You shared this fascinating piece with us.

It was Ken Wilber's forward to a book all about his work.

Okay.

And we're diving deep into integral philosophy, passion, and maybe even a touch of existentialism. Interesting.

So, it's not every day you see philosophy described as something that should like sizzle, right and boil your brain.

It's not every day you see that. Not at all.

And he's not just saying this. Rolo May, who's like a giant in the field of psychology, actually calls Wilber "the most passionate philosopher I know."

Really.

Not exactly your stuffy ivory tower type.

He does not sound like it. No. Right.

But I think beyond that, what Wilber's hinting at here, and it's woven throughout his work, is this idea that real understanding requires passion. It's not just about cold logic, but that fire in your belly that drives you to seek truth and that makes me think about how we approach learning anything new, even something like I don't know, learning to play a new musical instrument.

Okay.

If you're not passionate about it, if you don't feel that pull, are you really going to push through the challenges, the inevitable frustrations?

That's a great point.

Right.

Exactly.

So, and this is where Wilber's integral approach comes in.

Okay.

He's not just talking about philosophy here, right? He applies this to psychology, spirituality, even art.

Wow.

It's about seeing the whole picture.

Okay.

Engaging with all aspects of something.

So instead of just reading sheet music. You'd also feel the rhythm, move your body, maybe even improvise a bit.

Exactly.

You'd go beyond the theoretical and into the experiential.

Yes. And now imagine applying that to a problem you're trying to solve at work.

Or even a disagreement you're having with someone.

Okay.

Could an integral approach help you see things from a different angle?

Okay, that's actually really helpful. I can see how that would apply way beyond some abstract philosophical discussion.

Right. And what's interesting is that Wilber himself went through a period of intense personal struggle.

Oh.

Where he actually stepped back from writing for almost a decade.

Wow.

To care for his wife Treya who was battling cancer.

This is where we see the human side of this philosophical giant, right?

Yeah, definitely.

And he doesn't shy away from how deeply this experience impacted him.

This experience really seems to have deeply informed his view. Yeah.

On how we approach knowledge, it's not just about these abstract concepts, but the lived experiences that shape our understanding.

It's like he's saying, you know, don't just take my word for it.

Go out there and live and let life teach you.

That's great. Yeah.

I love that. And that leads us to one of Wilber's uh most thoughtprovoking ideas.

Okay.

His view on the limitations of language and concepts, right?

When trying to grasp ultimate reality, he actually refers to all his books as lies, which I have to admit caught my attention.

Yeah, that's uh that's pretty bold for a philosopher to say, right?

But it really goes to the heart of the difference.

Yeah. Okay.

Between intellectual understanding and direct experience.

Think of it like this. You can read every book ever written about love. But will that truly prepare you for the experience of falling in love?

I see what you mean. It's like the difference between looking at a map of a mountain range and actually climbing those mountains yourself.

Right.

The map can be helpful.

Mhm.

But it's only a representation.

Exactly.

And Wilber takes this idea even further.

Oh wow.

Saying that his books are suffocated signs full of muffled sound and faded glory signifying absolutely nothing.

Whoa!

He's really emphasizing the inherent limitations trying to capture the vastness of reality within the kinds of language.

I mean, while I understand the point about direct experience, wouldn't saying that all books are lies devalue the effort of trying to understand complex ideas?

That's a great question.

Yeah.

And it gets to the heart of this paradox that Wilber presents.

Okay.

He's not saying the books are worthless. But rather that they should be seen as pointers.

Yeah.

As guides.

Okay.

Not as the destination itself.

Okay.

They can offer frameworks and models for understanding.

Yeah.

But they can't fully encapsulate the lived experience.

So he's not telling us to throw out all the books and just meditate on a mountaintop.

Not necessarily.

He's encouraging us to use these maps, these frameworks as a starting point for our own exploration.

Okay?

He wants us to engage with his work and any intellectual pursuit for that matter, right?

With a critical mind and a willingness to go beyond the words on the page.

So instead of getting bogged down in the semantics, we should use these ideas as springboards, to dive into the depths of our own experience.

Precisely.

Okay, cool.

And that's where things get really interesting, right?

He describes this ultimate reality.

Yeah.

The thing that all these maps are pointing to as this profound mystery, a vibrant silence, right?

They can't be grasped by the intellect alone.

And this is where he brings in that evocative image. Of finding the entire cosmos most within our own awareness.

Exactly.

He paints this beautiful picture of birds singing, ocean waves crashing, clouds floating by, all in your awareness.

It's a beautiful image.

It's a powerful invitation to look inward.

To experience the universe not as something separate from us, but as something intimately connected to our own being.

Okay.

It's like he's saying, "Hey, the whole universe is right here within you. Go explore it."

That's a powerful image, but how do we actually access this inner universe in our daily lives?

That's the challenge, isn't it?

Yeah.

And Wilber doesn't offer any easy answers, right?

But perhaps that's the point. It's not about following a set of instructions.

Yeah.

But about cultivating a sense of curiosity, a willingness to explore the depths of our own being.

And maybe that's where the passion comes in again. That fire that fuels our exploration, both inward and outward.

Exactly.

It feels like we're being encouraged to become like explorers, you know?

Oh, yeah. just of ideas, but of our own inner landscapes.

Absolutely. And maybe that's what makes Wilber's work so compelling.

Yeah.

He's not just offering a set of beliefs or doctrines, but like a call to adventure.

Oh, wow.

An invitation to embark on a journey of self-discovery and to do it with passion. Yeah.

With that same sense of wonder and curiosity, right, that he seems to bring to everything he does.

And remember, he's not just talking about some like airy fairy mystical passion. He's talking about bringing that same energy and engagement.

Okay? to our everyday lives, to the choices we make, the way we interact with the world around us.

So, how does all this apply to us, to our daily lives, to our interactions with the world?

Yeah.

If an integral approach is about inclusivity, how can we embody that in the way we live?

Well, that's the million-dollar question, isn't it?

Yeah.

It's one thing to grasp these ideas intellectually, right?

But quite another to actually live them.

It's easy to get caught up in the whirlwind of daily life.

Yeah, definitely.

And forget about the cosmos within.

But maybe it starts with small steps. Maybe it's about being more mindful in our interactions, more open to different perspectives, even those we initially disagree with.

It's about questioning our assumptions.

Okay.

Challenging our own biases and recognizing the interconnectedness of everything.

So instead of getting stuck in our own limited viewpoints, we try to see the bigger picture, the whole tapestry of perspectives.

Exactly. And Who knows? Maybe that's how we start to tap into that mystery, that vibrant silence that Wilber talks about. Maybe it's not about reaching some grand enlightenment experience, but about finding those moments of awe and wonder, in the midst of the mundane.

It sounds like this integral approach is ultimately about becoming more fully human, more awake to the richness of our own experience and the world around us.

That's beautifully put. Yeah.

And I think that's a great takeaway from our deep dive into Wilber work.

Okay.

He's urging us to not just be passive consumers of knowledge, but active participants in the unfolding of our own understanding.

So there you have it.

Yeah.

We've explored the power of passion in philosophy, the importance of embracing multiple perspective and the limitations of language in describing ultimate reality.

Exactly.

And hopefully we've been challenged to apply these ideas to our own lives to find the cosmos within our own awareness and live with that same passion and curiosity that Wilber embodies.

And who knows, maybe this deep dive will spark something in you, inspire you to explore Wilber's work further, or even embark on your own integral journey of discovery.

Until next time, keep diving deep.

REFERENCES

[1] Ken Wilber, Foreword to: "Ken Wilber: Thought as Passion", SUNY Press, 2003.