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Frank Visser, graduated as a psychologist of culture and religion, founded IntegralWorld in 1997. He worked as production manager for various publishing houses and as service manager for various internet companies and lives in Amsterdam. Books: Ken Wilber: Thought as Passion (SUNY, 2003), and The Corona Conspiracy: Combatting Disinformation about the Coronavirus (Kindle, 2020).

Show Your True Colors

Integral World Podcast #3

Frank Visser / NotebookLM

This is an informal, AI-generated conversation by Google's NotebookLM, based on Part III of a review of Ken Wilber's The Religion of Tomorrow published by Frank Visser on Integral World.[1]

Have you ever thought about like how much power colors actually have? Like we use them to describe emotions, you know, like feeling blue or seeing red. But it turns out, colors play like a really big role in some pretty fascinating models of human development. So today we're going to do a deep dive into this article. It compares the color terminology in integral theory, Spiral dynamics and chakra psychology.

Interesting.

And get this. There's actually some debate about whether Ken Wilber, like a really big name in integral theory, might have actually gotten the colors wrong.

Mmmm. It's a question that's caused like a lot of discussion in these fields for sure. To understand why the color choice is so important, I think we should probably start with just like a basic understanding of how these systems kind of work,

Right. So, let's start with spiral dynamics.

Sure.

So, it's kind of like a map of human values.

Yeah.

Showing how we evolve both as individuals and societies.

Exactly. Spiral dynamics. It was developed by Clare Graves and it basically suggests that as humans we progress through these different stages of consciousness, each with its own set of values and and worldviews and then Don Beck and Chris Cowan came along and they added this color system to the model making it much easier to understand and remember

So each color represents a distinct stage of development.

Yes. And it's really important to note that these colors, they were chosen purely for like easy recall.

Gotcha.

They have no direct connection to chakras or any other like metaphysical system.

Okay, that makes sense. So, walk us through the colors. What are they and what do they represent?

All right, so we begin with beige, which represents like the most basic survival instincts. Okay,

Then we move on to purple. Purple represents tribalism and a reliance on magical thinking. After purple comes red. Red symbolizes like a real focus on power and egocentricity.

Okay,

Next up is blue. Blue is all about finding order and meaning through rules and and rigid belief systems. Then we have orange. Orange is really emphasizing achievement, competition, and and material success.

Following orange, we've got green, valuing community, equality, and environmental awareness. Then we reach yellow. Yellow represents integrated holistic thinking and a real flexible worldview.

And finally, we we have turquoise.

Turquoise symbolizes global interconnected consciousness.

It's fascinating how each color kind of paints such a vivid picture of these different stages. You can almost see the evolution of human values unfolding before your eyes.

Yeah, it's really meant to be like a visual representation of of the entire spectrum of human consciousness.

So, where does Ken Wilber and integral theory fit into all this?

Well, Wilber incorporates Spiral dynamics into his integral theory, but but he makes some interesting modifications to the color scheme.

Wait, he actually changed the colors. Yeah. Why would he do that?

Well, Wilber wanted to align the colors with the traditional chakra system that you find in Eastern spiritual traditions. He believed this created like a more accurate representation of human development, one that integrates both the psychological and spiritual aspects.

Interesting. So he essentially tried to merge these two systems, Spiral dynamics and the chakra system by creating his own like color scheme.

But does it actually work? I mean like the traditional chakra system already has its own set of colors and associations.

Yeah. And that's that's really the heart of the debate here. Wilber claims to have created "a more adequate spectrum of colors", but when you look at the tables in the article[1], the mismatches between his colors and the traditional chakra colors are, they're pretty striking.

Okay, so I'm looking at them now and yeah, some things definitely stand out. For instance, Wilber completely omits yellow.

Right.

Which in Spiral dynamics represents that crucial shift to a more integrated and holistic way of thinking.

Exactly.

And blue's missing, too, which is traditionally associated with communication [community?] and finding your voice.

Exactly.

Those are some significant omissions. And they really raise questions about whether Wilber's model might be overlooking some really key aspects of human development.

And it's not even just about what's missing. It's also about what he emphasizes, right? Like there seems to be an over representation of reddish hues in Wilber's model, especially in those really early stages of personal development. Didn't he like describe those colors himself as representing like raw and violent energies?

He did. Yeah. And it seems a bit contradictory to assign those colors so prominently to the stages of personal growth. It makes me wonder if the symbolic meaning of the colors align with his intentions.

It definitely raises some eyebrows. This whole color controversy is way more intriguing than I initially thought. It's not just about aesthetics. It's about how these color choices can actually influence our understanding of human psychology and development.

You're absolutely right. And it gets even more interesting when we look at the potential implications of like you using the wrong colors, especially when Wilber starts talking about something called biomachines. This is where things get uh a little more complex.

Biomachines. All right, you've definitely got my attention. Tell me more. What are biomachines and how do they fit into this whole color conundrum?

Well, Wilber uses the term biomachines to describe like systems or practices that are designed to activate specific levels of consciousness. And he suggests that using the wrong colors in these systems could could potentially have unforeseen energetic consequences.

Wow. So, it's not even just a theoretical debate. It could have like realworld implications.

Yeah.

Okay. Now, I'm officially hooked.

It's definitely more than just a color by numbers exercise. And to really understand the depth of this debate, we need to delve into Frank Visser's critique of Wilber's model. He doesn't just point out the inconsistencies. He offers some some pretty compelling solutions, too.

All right, I'm all ears. Let's hear what Frank Visser has to say and how he proposes to untangle this whole color conundrum. So, what's like Visser's main critique of Wilber's color scheme? Is it just about the missing colors, or is there something more to it?

Well, Visser argues that Wilber's attempt to kind of merge Spiral dynamics with the chakra system. It results in a model that lacks both accuracy and symbolic resonance. It's like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

So, instead of creating like a harmonious blend, it ends up feeling kind of forced and confusing.

Yeah. Exactly. And Visser points out that this can lead to misunderstandings, especially for people who are new to these concepts. He believes that Wilber's model, while ambitious, ultimately distorts both systems.

That makes sense. If you're trying to speak two different languages at the same time, you know, the message can get kind of lost in translation. So, what does Visser propose as a solution? Does he just like scrap Wilber's model altogether?

Not quite. Uh he takes a more constructive approach. Visser suggests revising the color scheme to address the inconsistency. and bring back those missing primary colors, yellow and blue.

Okay. So, he's reintroducing those crucial elements. I'm guessing he also rearranges some of the other colors to create a more like logical flow.

Yeah, you got it. He shifts things around to create a better alignment with with traditional color systems and address those imbalances we were talking about earlier. For example, he moves orange down a level to represent mythic rationality.

Okay.

Placing it between red, representing magic, and yellow representing reason.

That seems like a much more natural progression. Orange does seem to fit that stage where we start to like blend magical thinking with a more rational worldview.

Exactly. It's about finding the colors that best capture the essence of each stage both psychologically and symbolically.

This is where it gets really interesting for me. If the colors are like meant to represent stages of human development, does changing them actually change how we understand those stages?

That's a great question that gets to the heart of why this whole color controversy matters.

Okay,

Think of it this way. Colors are symbols,

Right?

And symbols carry meaning. Even if we're not like consciously aware of it, those colors can influence how we perceive and interpret these different stages.

So, using the wrong colors could actually skew our understanding of human development.

It's definitely possible and it really raises the question of how much do these seemingly small choices affect our perception of these models and ultimately our understanding of ourselves.

That's a pretty profound thought. It makes you realize that even something as seemingly simple as color choice can have like far-reaching implications.

Absolutely. And it highlights the need to be to be mindful of the language and symbolism we use when we're trying to map out something as complex as human consciousness.

This whole discussion about uh biomachines really brings that home. If the colors in these models can potentially influence our energy or consciousness, then getting them right becomes even more crucial.

Exactly. And it really emphasizes the responsibility we have as thinkers and and practitioners to carefully consider the tools and frameworks that we use.

Okay. So, let's let's shift gears a bit and talk more about Viser's proposed revisions.

What are like the strengths of his approach and are there any like potential drawbacks?

One of the main strengths is that he brings back those missing primary colors, yellow and blue. It restores like a sense of balance and completeness to the model.

Okay.

He also rearranges the colors in a way that feels more intuitively aligned with traditional color systems and the the flow of human development.

That sounds like a really positive step. What about any potential drawbacks? Is his model like perfectly address all the issues with Wilber's approach?

Well, I mean, no model is perfect, right? Visser's revisions, they still rely on that basic framework of Spiral dynamics and the chakra system. Yeah. Which some people might find uh limiting.

Right. So, it's still working within those like existing paradigms. It's it's an improvement, but not necessarily a radical reinvention of how we understand human development.

Exactly. And it's important to remember that all models are just that models. They're tools to help us make sense of the world, but they're not the world itself.

So, we shouldn't get too caught up in the details of any particular model. The real values in using these models as like springboards for deeper exploration and understanding.

That's a great point and I think Visser's work really highlights the importance of staying curious, questioning assumptions and being willing to to challenge existing frameworks.

That's a really valuable takeaway for our listeners. Don't just accept a model at face value.

You know, dig deeper, explore different perspectives, and see what resonates with you.

Absolutely. And I think this whole discussion about color schemes is a perfect example of how these seemingly small details can actually reveal some really profound insights about ourselves and the world around us.

So, as we're wrapping up this this deep dive into the the color controversy, surrounding human development. What are like some key takeaways for our listeners? What do you hope they walk away with?

Well, I think a big takeaway is that these models, they're insightful and all, but they're still just representations of a very complex reality. Like they're kind of like maps, helpful for navigation, but not the not the actual territory.

That is a perfect analogy.

And just like, you know, we wouldn't rely on a single map to explore the entire world, right?

We shouldn't limit ourselves to just one model of human development. So, it's about using these models as starting points for further exploration, not as like the definitive answer to everything. We got to keep questioning, keep exploring, and be open to to new perspectives.

Yeah, precisely. And that brings us back to that that intriguing question we started with. Did Ken Wilber get the colors wrong? I think the answer is a little more nuanced than just a simple yes or no.

Okay.

His attempt to integrate Spiral dynamics with the chakra system, it was ambitious

And it's certainly sparked a lot of a lot of important conversations.

Yeah.

But ultimately whether his color choices were right or wrong kind of depends on your perspective and what you prioritize in a model of human development.

So there's no one right answer.

Just different ways of of seeing things, right?

It's like those um optical illusions where the same image can be perceived in multiple ways depending on how you look at it.

Exactly. And that's why it's so important to be aware of the potential biases and limitations of any model that we use.

This whole discussion has really made me think about the power of symbols.

Yeah.

And how they can really shape our understanding of the world. Like even something as seemingly simple as color choice can have a a really profound impact.

Absolutely. And it reminds us that the language we use to describe these really complex concepts, it matters.

It's like we're painting a picture of human consciousness and the colors that we choose will inevitably influence how that picture is perceived.

That's that's beautifully put and it makes me wonder if you were given the chance to paint your own picture of human development, what colors would you choose and why?

Oh, that's a great question. Uhm, I think I'd draw a lot of inspiration from nature, not just in terms of like the colors, but also in terms of the the patterns and processes. There's just there's so much wisdom kind of embedded in the natural world.

I love that. It's like using nature as as a guide. book for understanding our own human potential.

Exactly. And it's also a reminder that human development isn't just about individual growth.

You know, it's also about our interconnectedness.

Yeah.

With the larger web of life.

I think that's a perfect note to end on. We're all part of something much bigger than ourselves and our journeys of development are they're really all intertwined. As we continue to explore these complexities of human consciousness, let's remember to stay curious, keep questioning, and never stop marveling at the beauty and wonder of it all.

Beautifully said. And for our listeners who want to delve deeper into this fascinating topic, we'll include a link to Frank Visser's article in the show notes.[1] It's a thought-provoking read that'll definitely challenge your assumptions and expand your understanding of the colorful landscape of human development.

It's a great article.

Yeah. And remember, the exploration doesn't end here. Keep those minds open. Keep those questions coming. And who knows what colorful discoveries you'll make along the way. Until next time, happy exploring.

REFERENCES

[1] Frank Visser, "'A More Adequate Spectrum of Colors'?, A Comparison of Color Terminology in Integral Theory, Spiral Dynamics and Chakra-Psychology", Review of "The Religion of Tomorrow", Part III, www.integralworld.net