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Integral World: Exploring Theories of Everything
An independent forum for a critical discussion of the integral philosophy of Ken Wilber
Jeff Salzman presents the Daily Evolver
podcast. He currently teaches at The Integral Center, and is a member of that organization’s founding circle. He is lead developer and facilitator of The Integral Incubator, a five-day, in-residence program designed to help people get traction on the calling of their lives. Deeply informed by the tenets of integral theory, Jeff is honored to have worked for three years with his hero, Ken Wilber, in developing the Integral Institute, specifically seminars on integral applications to business, psychology and spirituality.
Critic Meets Advocate
A Conversation Between Jeff Salzman
and Frank Visser of Integral World
In this podcast Jeff and Frank talk about their differences, which primarily boils down to the question: does Spirit exist?
“Frank Visser is arguably the chief critic of Ken Wilber, integral theory and the integral community as a whole. Based in Amsterdam, Frank is publisher of the website ‘INTEGRAL WORLD: An Independent Forum for a Critical Discussion of the Integral Philosophy of Ken Wilber’ which hosts over a thousand essays by mostly dissenting voices in the integral scene.
Contrast this to Jeff Salzman and his work with the Daily Evolver. Jeff is an unabashed Wilberian and self-described integral evangelist who “sees the animating power of evolution, inside and out.” Frank and Jeff spoke by phone before the holidays while Frank was getting ready to head out to an island on the coast of the Netherlands.”
“In this podcast Jeff and Frank talk about their differences, which primarily boils down to the question: does Spirit exist? Is there a loving intelligence at work in the kosmos? Jeff says “yes”, and Frank says “not so fast.”
“For Frank, the idea that there is an intelligent force driving evolution, that the substrate of existence is consciousness, or Spirit, is where the line is crossed. To make such claims requires an unhealthy mixing of science and religion. “Wilber is a complicated figure, because he argues for Spirit but he includes so much scientific material to back up that case…it’s only natural for people who are in the sciences to hold him accountable for how strong is his case.”
Of course, the integral project is to integrate the realms of science and mysticism, which have different injunctions and different validity claims, and which have long been estranged. But Frank is skeptical; are we integrating or are we mixing? Probably both, says Jeff, but this is how we move forward.”