Subject: Another View on States Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:17:54 +0100 From: Frank Visser To: f.visser3@chello.nl WILBER FRIENDS MAILING LIST =========================== http://www.worldfofkenwilber.com Amsterdam, November 15 2003 Hi Wilber friend, Mark Edwards, a frequent contributor to the Reading Room of the "World of Ken Wilber" website, wrote a 50 page, 2-volume essay on the integral theory of states of consciousness and their relation to spirituality. Wilber's recent statements on this topic on the Kosmic Consciousness CDs urged him to propose an alternative view. AN ALTERNATIVE VIEW ON STATES He has noted a tension in the integral view between seeing the universal human dream and deep sleep states as proof that everybody has "access" to the transpersonal (subtle and causal) dimension, and the the older, more exclusivist view that holds the transpersonal to be a rare experience, attained by only a few so far. "This essay begins with four quotes from Ken's writings on infant spirituality. All of the quotes concern the relationship of infants to the experience of transpersonal spirituality. Two of them assert that infants have "authentic" access to those realms and two of them assert that they don't. In the following I simply try to work out which two are valid and which two aren't. If all four of them are correct then the current integral theory of states is in need of some very serious house cleaning." In the second part of his essay, Edwards summarizes the current research findings on sleep and dreaming, and argues the recent integral view is at variance with this research. As always, Edwards writes in the spirit of increasing the coherency of the integral viewpoint: "There is much that I do not agree with in Wilber's theory of states simply because it does not conform to some core Integral theory principles. And, as usual, I offer these criticisms in the spirit of trying to improve the internal consistency of the model. None of this will detract one jot from the profundity of the poetic and instructional aspects of his writings on states, but then words could never get in the way of communicating That in any event." Available now in the Reading Room, and as always, through the Latest Additions page! frank -- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Frank Visser, Waterpoortweg 279, 1051 PV A'dam, Netherlands Read all about Ken Wilber : http://www.worldofkenwilber.com xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx